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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:40 am 
cacodemon

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I would love for memristors to exist, but I'm not sure that they'll ever be created according to what the original definition of what they're supposed to be. RRAM is supposed to be a type of memristor, though not all agree on that. In any case, RRAM is the non-volatile memory solution that has me the most excited because it's the only one with benchmarks out there.

RESISTIVE RAM


Image

The latency of its random read is less than 30 nanoseconds. That's very good.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:28 am 
supreme adder
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I'm unsure that the access times are really fast enough; perhaps.

From what I understand that's substantially slower than RAM in terms of access latency. The memory wall is already a problem. This seems to aggravate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:33 am 
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It looks like a good storage technology and presumably it can be heavily parallelised like NAND in order to rack up those transfer rates, but it doesn't seem to fit the bill for merging memory and storage.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:07 pm 
cacodemon

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You've made good points. My understanding was that DDR4 was going to be the final iteration of DDR before we started using non-volatile RAM. Exactly what was meant to replace DDR, I have no idea. It's certainly not going to be NAND Flash. While NOR allows for random access, I haven't heard of it being planned as a replacement. I was hoping that RRAM could do it, but after what you've pointed out I'm doubtful.

As for merging memory and storage, I've heard that memristors are supposed to do that. I've found the video in question, but to be fair, this wasn't Stan Williams making that comment. It was said by a reporter talking about memristors, and for all I know, he had no idea what he was talking about.

RRAM looks like it will be very good for storage purposes. It can even be manufactured on the same equipment as NAND, so companies don't need new fabs. I look at it being a very probable replacement for Flash memory for that reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:29 pm 
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One day I will understand all of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:59 pm 
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MijukuDesu wrote:
You've made good points. My understanding was that DDR4 was going to be the final iteration of DDR before we started using non-volatile RAM. Exactly what was meant to replace DDR, I have no idea. It's certainly not going to be NAND Flash. While NOR allows for random access, I haven't heard of it being planned as a replacement. I was hoping that RRAM could do it, but after what you've pointed out I'm doubtful.

As for merging memory and storage, I've heard that memristors are supposed to do that. I've found the video in question, but to be fair, this wasn't Stan Williams making that comment. It was said by a reporter talking about memristors, and for all I know, he had no idea what he was talking about.

RRAM looks like it will be very good for storage purposes. It can even be manufactured on the same equipment as NAND, so companies don't need new fabs. I look at it being a very probable replacement for Flash memory for that reason.


What we really require is something with lower access latencies and on a large scale. The only thing that I can really think is that perhaps this is what Crystalwell is partly for. Perhaps expanding the L4 cache permits slower memory, but it seems really unlikely, because of the storage amounts. It seems to directly contradict the purpose of having large amounts of RAM in the first place.

My real thought is that memristors are probably the first step towards the kind of technology that allows that sort of fusion.

The fact is though that the table talks about memristors as having <30 nanoseconds of access time. A current generation Intel CPU cycles at least 90 times (assuming 3Ghz, which is actually too slow) during that period. That doesn't seem even vaguely enough unless there is some other thing going on that we don't know about.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:02 pm 
cacodemon

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What I posted was an image related to RRAM's specifications. Maybe you thought that it was for memristors or maybe you consider RRAM a type of memristor. You decide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistive_ ... ess_memory

"Leon Chua, who is considered to be the father of non-linear circuit theory, has argued that all 2-terminal non-volatile memory devices including ReRAM should be considered memristors.[14] Stan Williams of HP Labs has also argued that all ReRAM should be considered to be a memristor.[15] These claims, however, seem not to be justified given that the memristor theory in itself is open to question.[16][17] There is an ongoing discussion whether or not redox-based resistively switching elements (ReRAM) are covered by the current memristor theory.[18]"



I performed a quick search on non-volatile RAM and turned up this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-volati ... ess_memory

It lists Flash memory as being a type of non-volatile RAM. I have no idea how this conclusion was reached unless NOR is being used beyond a replacement for ROM and EEPROM. The list on the bottom includes MRAM and Phase-Change RAM too, which I've planned on researching but haven't done so yet. I have no clue whether on not they'd be good replacements for DDR.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:00 am 
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I haven't read this thoroughly yet, but I'm comparing it to what I know of current DDR.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:25 am 
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jozoz wrote:
One day I will understand all of this.

I won't and I'm glad.



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 Post subject: Re: Need Help with Non-Volatile Memory Research
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:55 pm 
cacodemon

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One technology for which I'm excited is Racetrack Memory. It's basically the solid-state version of a magnetic hard drive. Since there's no moving parts it can withstand an unlimited amount of writes. My guess is that it's too slow for a replacement for DRAM, but it's a great technology for storage nonetheless. Since IBM sold its hard drive business to Hitachi, the company has been working on non-volatile memory that can be stored on a chip. Maybe this will connect to the motherboard via a PCIe port instead of using a SATA interface. I don't know the details yet, but it sounds like a pretty revolutionary technology.


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