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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:13 pm 
bran the barn owl
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I really need to play this. Perhaps after the kids are back in school.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:11 am 
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Begogian wrote:

It's not a Deus Ex Machina. You didn't know that girl could turn into 100 people, either. It wasn't like you knew beforehand that he wouldn't be able to deal with her in a 1vs1 fight, so it's not Deus Ex Machina. The Huff and Puff attack had to come, it's what the wolf is famous for. That thing is what actually made the difference and you knew it would come beforehand, it's part of the universe. The fight was cool, also.

Some of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with whether something is a Deus Ex Machina or not. Even if the wolf is famous for certain abilities they still need to be explained in the work that they happen in.
Spoiler:
It wasn't just the huff and puff attack that made it a DEM, it was the fact that he turned into the giant wolf at that convenient moment. If he was able to do so then why didn't he do so earlier around the time where Bloody Mary destroyed him in the fight? There was actually more at stake then, it just wasn't a convenient time for the writers to "surprise" the audience.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:56 am 
Audrey Horne
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Gilgamesh wrote:
Begogian wrote:

It's not a Deus Ex Machina. You didn't know that girl could turn into 100 people, either. It wasn't like you knew beforehand that he wouldn't be able to deal with her in a 1vs1 fight, so it's not Deus Ex Machina. The Huff and Puff attack had to come, it's what the wolf is famous for. That thing is what actually made the difference and you knew it would come beforehand, it's part of the universe. The fight was cool, also.

Some of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with whether something is a Deus Ex Machina or not. Even if the wolf is famous for certain abilities they still need to be explained in the work that they happen in.
Spoiler:
It wasn't just the huff and puff attack that made it a DEM, it was the fact that he turned into the giant wolf at that convenient moment. If he was able to do so then why didn't he do so earlier around the time where Bloody Mary destroyed him in the fight? There was actually more at stake then, it just wasn't a convenient time for the writers to "surprise" the audience.


They all have to do with Deus Ex Machina. Deus Ex Machina is basically a writer's cop-out. Everything that doesn't make it a cop-out, everything that explains the alleged cop-out is relevant.
They do. The game doesn't need to explain certain things of the universe. It doesn't. It can't explain everything. It doesn't explain talking pigs and frogs, but you know there were talking pigs in the fairy tales, so you accept it. It's the universe: Fairy tale characters. The mirror can show you where people are. The universe doesn't explain it, it just tells you it does. Why do you accept it? Because of the fairy tale. Bigby can do what he's done because it's part of the universe and very well known. Everything supernatural in this series is not being explained, they just tell you and rely on the fairy tale universe.

Spoiler:
Bigby was very cautious when it comes to transforming throughout the entire series. He's afraid of becoming his old self again. Snow made it possible for him to change to human form, so he fights the wolf within him constantly. The Wolf is his old form, it represents everything he's supposed to leave behind, otherwise he's both banned from the farm and the town. It makes sense that he uses the ultimate form as a last resort. Bloody Mary shot him, a wolf form wouldn't have helped, there. About the fight leading up to the shot: Snow was present, I take it it's already forbidden to even turn into the werewolf form. (Faith tells Bigby right in ep 1 after he attacked Woody with glowing, green eyes that he's not supposed to do that). It was also his first fight with her, he didn't know how strong she was. Furthermore, the wolf monster seems to kill everything, which is not his goal in the first fight. They wanted to arrest people. It's also his worst (as in "baddest) form, he might've killed Crane and maybe even Snow in that killer form. In the second fight, it was basically do or die.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:49 am 
Audrey Horne
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Oh yeah, one thing, though:

Spoiler:
Generally, Ep5 wasn't really one of the better episodes. There really were hardly any choices other than kill the bad guy or not.
My main problem with it is that I'm a bit disappointed about the reveal of the murderer. The Crooked Man told Georgie to do it and that's it?! Georgie and the Crooked Man confessed, so they can't reveal Faith as the true master mind behind this, really. Unless she glamoured herself into a Crooked Man form and told Georgie to do it. That's reaching,though. So yeah, the reveal was quite dull.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:49 am 
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Begogian wrote:
Gilgamesh wrote:
Begogian wrote:

It's not a Deus Ex Machina. You didn't know that girl could turn into 100 people, either. It wasn't like you knew beforehand that he wouldn't be able to deal with her in a 1vs1 fight, so it's not Deus Ex Machina. The Huff and Puff attack had to come, it's what the wolf is famous for. That thing is what actually made the difference and you knew it would come beforehand, it's part of the universe. The fight was cool, also.

Some of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with whether something is a Deus Ex Machina or not. Even if the wolf is famous for certain abilities they still need to be explained in the work that they happen in.
Spoiler:
It wasn't just the huff and puff attack that made it a DEM, it was the fact that he turned into the giant wolf at that convenient moment. If he was able to do so then why didn't he do so earlier around the time where Bloody Mary destroyed him in the fight? There was actually more at stake then, it just wasn't a convenient time for the writers to "surprise" the audience.


They all have to do with Deus Ex Machina. Deus Ex Machina is basically a writer's cop-out. Everything that doesn't make it a cop-out, everything that explains the alleged cop-out is relevant.
They do. The game doesn't need to explain certain things of the universe. It doesn't. It can't explain everything. It doesn't explain talking pigs and frogs, but you know there were talking pigs in the fairy tales, so you accept it. It's the universe: Fairy tale characters. The mirror can show you where people are. The universe doesn't explain it, it just tells you it does. Why do you accept it? Because of the fairy tale. Bigby can do what he's done because it's part of the universe and very well known. Everything supernatural in this series is not being explained, they just tell you and rely on the fairy tale universe.

Spoiler:
Bigby was very cautious when it comes to transforming throughout the entire series. He's afraid of becoming his old self again. Snow made it possible for him to change to human form, so he fights the wolf within him constantly. The Wolf is his old form, it represents everything he's supposed to leave behind, otherwise he's both banned from the farm and the town. It makes sense that he uses the ultimate form as a last resort. Bloody Mary shot him, a wolf form wouldn't have helped, there. About the fight leading up to the shot: Snow was present, I take it it's already forbidden to even turn into the werewolf form. (Faith tells Bigby right in ep 1 after he attacked Woody with glowing, green eyes that he's not supposed to do that). It was also his first fight with her, he didn't know how strong she was. Furthermore, the wolf monster seems to kill everything, which is not his goal in the first fight. They wanted to arrest people. It's also his worst (as in "baddest) form, he might've killed Crane and maybe even Snow in that killer form. In the second fight, it was basically do or die.

That's not what I meant. Of course we need to suspend a degree of disbelief with that kind if a universe. We need to do it with to some extent with pretty much all fiction. That's not the point. But there still needs to be some logic and consistency. The fact that throughout the whole five episodes there is no build up to that moment(to my knowledge at least) is what makes sit a DEM. In Superman, the moment where he turns back time by flying around the Earth would have been a DEM if. It for the fact that it's mentioned at the start of the film that he has the ability to do it. It's when something comes out of nowhere for convenient effect that pretty much defines it. It doesn't have anything to do with the character or world that the work is set in being unrealistic by default.

The explanation you gave does seem fairly logical but at the same time it comes across as an excuse more than a reason. Had it of been hinted at that he was suppressing his "powers" for a reason, then I could have bought it better.

Anyway, it's not a big deal for me. It's just something I felt if point out.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:55 am 
Audrey Horne
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Gilgamesh wrote:
Begogian wrote:
Gilgamesh wrote:
Begogian wrote:

It's not a Deus Ex Machina. You didn't know that girl could turn into 100 people, either. It wasn't like you knew beforehand that he wouldn't be able to deal with her in a 1vs1 fight, so it's not Deus Ex Machina. The Huff and Puff attack had to come, it's what the wolf is famous for. That thing is what actually made the difference and you knew it would come beforehand, it's part of the universe. The fight was cool, also.

Some of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with whether something is a Deus Ex Machina or not. Even if the wolf is famous for certain abilities they still need to be explained in the work that they happen in.
Spoiler:
It wasn't just the huff and puff attack that made it a DEM, it was the fact that he turned into the giant wolf at that convenient moment. If he was able to do so then why didn't he do so earlier around the time where Bloody Mary destroyed him in the fight? There was actually more at stake then, it just wasn't a convenient time for the writers to "surprise" the audience.


They all have to do with Deus Ex Machina. Deus Ex Machina is basically a writer's cop-out. Everything that doesn't make it a cop-out, everything that explains the alleged cop-out is relevant.
They do. The game doesn't need to explain certain things of the universe. It doesn't. It can't explain everything. It doesn't explain talking pigs and frogs, but you know there were talking pigs in the fairy tales, so you accept it. It's the universe: Fairy tale characters. The mirror can show you where people are. The universe doesn't explain it, it just tells you it does. Why do you accept it? Because of the fairy tale. Bigby can do what he's done because it's part of the universe and very well known. Everything supernatural in this series is not being explained, they just tell you and rely on the fairy tale universe.

Spoiler:
Bigby was very cautious when it comes to transforming throughout the entire series. He's afraid of becoming his old self again. Snow made it possible for him to change to human form, so he fights the wolf within him constantly. The Wolf is his old form, it represents everything he's supposed to leave behind, otherwise he's both banned from the farm and the town. It makes sense that he uses the ultimate form as a last resort. Bloody Mary shot him, a wolf form wouldn't have helped, there. About the fight leading up to the shot: Snow was present, I take it it's already forbidden to even turn into the werewolf form. (Faith tells Bigby right in ep 1 after he attacked Woody with glowing, green eyes that he's not supposed to do that). It was also his first fight with her, he didn't know how strong she was. Furthermore, the wolf monster seems to kill everything, which is not his goal in the first fight. They wanted to arrest people. It's also his worst (as in "baddest) form, he might've killed Crane and maybe even Snow in that killer form. In the second fight, it was basically do or die.

That's not what I meant. Of course we need to suspend a degree of disbelief with that kind if a universe. We need to do it with to some extent with pretty much all fiction. That's not the point. But there still needs to be some logic and consistency. The fact that throughout the whole five episodes there is no build up to that moment(to my knowledge at least) is what makes sit a DEM. In Superman, the moment where he turns back time by flying around the Earth would have been a DEM if. It for the fact that it's mentioned at the start of the film that he has the ability to do it. It's when something comes out of nowhere for convenient effect that pretty much defines it. It doesn't have anything to do with the character or world that the work is set in being unrealistic by default.

The explanation you gave does seem fairly logical but at the same time it comes across as an excuse more than a reason. Had it of been hinted at that he was suppressing his "powers" for a reason, then I could have bought it better.

Anyway, it's not a big deal for me. It's just something I felt if point out.

It's building up to the moment very, very much.
Spoiler:
It started with green eyes in ep1, built up to the Werewolf form and then to the ultimate Huff and Puff monster. There is a build up. It doesn't come out of nowhere, it was to be expected. He's the "big bad wolf", a name he's been called *so* many times in the game and a line that is *directly* connected to the fairy tale wolf standing in front of the pig's house before huffing and puffing. The character's name is practically Big bad wolf (Bigby). The hints are countless.

It is not an excuse. It *has* been hinted that he was suppressing his powers for a reason. It has been hinted (and said) that he isn't welcome in the farm, because they don't like him there anymore for what he's done to them. Each time he transformed, he told people not to tell anyone (especially Snow), he's been told by many people not to do it (again: Faith in episode 1 introduces us to the secret powers of Bigby and immediately tells us they're forbidden). You're also informed about him being banned from the farm and Snow giving him a chance to redeem himself in the town, giving him the power to change to a humanoid form.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:28 am 
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Maybe I missed some of those things then. I played the episodes months apart, and it's quite obvious now, that that wasn't the way it's meant to be played. I can't even remember the details about Faith and Narissa that some of you were discussing.

I'm still not going to take your word about those things blindly, but perhaps I should replay it and see if I feel differently afterwards.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:20 pm 
Audrey Horne
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If you still have it installed, you can look up the "Bigby has been banned from the farm and given the opportunity to transform into human form by Snow" information in the extras menu that gives you background information about all the characters.
The rest is in the irl fairy tales.

I agree on the game being very reliant on you remembering little details of former episodes and TWAU's episodic concept not supporting that at all. I will again wait for the entire season to come out. I will not wait a month for one single episode, it doesn't work.



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:40 pm 
Audrey Horne
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It doesn't sound like there's going to be a second season. First season ended with a "get the graphic novels for more", not with a S2 preview. It apparently didn't sell all that well and Telltale has Tales of Borderlands, Game of Thrones and TWD S3 coming up.

=/



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 Post subject: Re: The Wolf Among Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:24 pm 
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